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FormBlog | May 07, 2008

Manila, Derby angles, etc.

Let's take a trip back in time to 1986. 

The Chicago Bears whipped the New England Patriots 46-10 to win the Super Bowl.  Geraldo Rivera opened Al Capone's "Secret Vault" to find a single bottle of moonshine.  The Chernobyl nuclear plant exploded in the Ukraine, and the Space Shuttle Challenger disintegrated just after launch.  Roger Clemens struck out 20 batters in a single game, but his Boston Red Sox were upset by the New York Mets in the World Series.  Mike Tyson knocked out Trevor Berbick to begin his run of dominance in the heavyweight division. 

In thoroughbred racing, Manila earned championship honors as the top grass horse of 1986.  Let's learn more about Manila's season through the words of the legendary Joe Hirsch in his "1986 Racing in Review" column from the 1987 American Racing Manual:

"...There was no question about the grass course championship among males.  Manila, with eight victories in 10 starts and two seconds in 1986, earned $1,814,729 and was an easy choice.  The 3-year-old Lyphard colt capped a magnificent season with a victory over older horses in the $2,000,000 Breeders' Cup Turf at Santa Anita.  Ridden in many of his major victories by Jose Santos, he came off the pace in the stretch, was forced to make a right-handed turn in midstretch, but still got up to score by a neck over the outstanding Irish import, Theatrical, while Europe's Horse of the Year, Dancing Brave, was unplaced.  Estrapade, the great grass mare who beat the colts in the Arlington Million, finished third."

"A maiden in three starts during 1985, Manila scored his first victory in his 1986 debut at Hialeah on March 18, winning on the dirt by eight lengths.  Bred by E. M. Cojuangco Jr. of the Philippines and subsequently sold at private treaty to Bradley (Mike) Shannon of Lexington, Ky., Manila made his turf debut at Keeneland on April 9 and won by more than seven lengths."

"At that point he was still under consideration for the spring classics, but finished second to Autobot in the Forerunner at Keeneland and was not given a chance in the subsequent Blue Grass.  Had he run in the Blue Grass and done well, he'd have gone on to the Derby. 
Instead, he ran in the Saranac Mile on the Belmont turf course in Mid-May and ran well to finish second to Glow (by Northern Dancer). 
On a quick trip to  California, he won the Cinema Handicap at Hollywood on June 7, defeating California Derby winner Vernon Castle.  Returning to Belmont Park, Manila beat Glow in the Lexington Handicap on July 12 and then scored a signal victory against older horses in the prestigious Grade I feature, the United Nations Handicap at Atlantic City on August 9.  Lieutenant's Lark, who was to upset the Washington D. C. International at Laurel in November, finished third.
Manila won the Ballantine's Scotch Classic at the Meadowlands on September 5, beat an international field in the Turf Classic at Belmont on September 20, then was freshened and pointed for the Breeders' Cup Turf, which set the seal on an outstanding season."

Here is a clip of the 1986 Turf Classic (courtesy of youtube):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jn-z84-LaPI

Here is a clip of the 1986 Breeders' Cup Turf (courtesy of youtube)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=49488AEm9uo

Manila returned to the races as a four-year-old for trainer LeRoy Jolley, and scored in his seasonal debut in the Elkhorn at Keeneland on April 14.  He then won the Early Times Turf Classic  at Churchill Downs on May 1, and then took the Grade 1 United Nations Handicap for the second straight year on July 15.  He tasted defeat - by three-quarters of a length - at the hooves of Talakeno in the Grade 2 Bernard Baruch at Saratoga before finishing his career with a sharp score in the Arlington Million on September 6.

Manila retired with a record of 18 starts, 12 wins, five seconds, and earnings of $2,692,799.  The son of Lyphard - Dona Ysidra, by Le Fabuleux will be inducted into the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame in Saratoga Springs, NY later this summer.

Not to mention, when was the last time the third place finisher in the Santa Anita Derby wasn't p...ointed to the Derby? David Hofmans never had any intention of running Coast Guard in the Derby...
Stephen Cedroni

You have to go way back...all the way back to 2004...when Rock Hard Ten was placed third in the Santa Anita Derby.  Like Coast Guard, he didn't have enough earnings to get into the Kentucky Derby field.  Kafwain (third, 2003) and I Love Silver (2001) also didn't race in the  Derby. 

***

...Horseracing needs Big Brown to be the real deal, but wasn't his beyer only about par for the last 7-8 runnings? Not exactly super-horse time. Hopefully, Dutrow knew what was in front of him & only needed him to be 90-95%, with room to improve or at least not regress in the 2 weeks 'til the Preakness...

Big Brown earned a 109 Beyer for his Derby win.  It's about par for the Derby since 1992, but faster than Giacomo (100), Smarty Jones (107), Fusaichi Pegasus (108), Charismatic (108), Real Quiet (107), Thunder Gulch (108), Lil E. Tee (107), and Sea Hero (105), and equal to Funny Cide (109).  Faster Derby winners since 1992 include Go for Gin (112), Grindstone (112), Silver Charm (115), Monarchos (116), War Emblem (114), Barbaro (111), and Street Sense (110). 

People ask me who Big Brown has beaten.  The answer is simple.  It's everyone that's lined up in the gate against him.

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NEW DERBY ANGLE:
I've come up with a brand new angle for helping pick a Derby winner.  It's winning at a 17% clip now over the 134 year history.  It involves leaning with the horses that have only made 3 career starts up until the Derby :) 
Afi

(smile).  That's a good one, Afi.  I, myself, prefer the "bullet work in the final prep" angle.  Adding in Big Brown (3F - 35.40, best of 19), eight of the last 13 Derby winners showed a bullet as the final workout before the race.

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ONE QUETION FOR ANYONE IS THERE AT LEAST A HOPE WAR PASS MAY GET A SHOT AT BIG BROWN IN THE NEXT TWO LEGS OF THE TC..
joedracer79

It's probably not going to happen.


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I don't blame Saez for the injury, don't get me wrong. I just don't see the purpose in his using the whip in the final strides with no chance to catch Big Brown and no chance of being caught...What did Rags to Riches do after running in the Belmont?  When they run these races at that age they are done.  Let them duke it out with the boys when they get older like Ouija Board instead.
wilson

Ouija Board, like most females in Europe, mostly raced against males.  Two of her three races at age two (third in 23-horse field, and maiden win) were against the boys.  She finished third in the Arc against males as a three-year-old, and beat the boys in the Hong Kong Vase at four.  She beat Dubai World Cup winner Electrocutionist in the Prince of Wales's Stakes at five, and finished second that year in the Irish Champion Stakes as well as third in the Japan Cup.
Rags to Riches only ran once after the Belmont, and she was only beaten a half-length in the Grade 1 Gazelle. 
Eight Belles had a tendency to lug in during the stretch drive.  Saez may have been using the whip to keep her from bumping into the rail.

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Lenny,
Please be quiet...
The similarities to 2006 are striking!!  The one potential negative to Harlem Rocker is his pedigree - Bernardini had a classic pedigree but can Harlem Rocker also go two-turns??...
Alan

Harlem Rocker is a son of Macho Uno, the juvenile champion of 2000.  Macho Uno won at distances ranging between 5.5 furlongs (maiden win at Saratoga) to nine furlongs (Pennsylvania Derby, Massachusetts Handicap), and is a half-brother to Awesome Again, a multiple Grade 1 winner at 10 furlongs. 
Harlem Rocker is the first foal of Freedom Come, a multiple stakes-placed sprinter on both turf and dirt by Lit de Justice.  Freedom Come never raced beyond seven furlongs, but her half-brother, Boomzeeboom (by Explosive Red), won the Grade 3 Affirmed Handicap at 1 1/16 miles. 
The second dam, Zee Lady (by Unreal Zeal), was a listed stakes-winning sprinter at two in New York. 
There seems to be enough stamina in this pedigree to go long, but Harlem Rocker is still a bit green (note how he hopped back to his wrong lead when perhaps bored late in the Withers), and he may be pointed towards races like the Canadian Triple Crown series.

***

...But, If I know him like I think I do - He hates having to bring back his real good horses w/ short rest. Look at all his great ones that he has campaigned: Saint Liam, Kip Deville, Sis City, Benny the Bull, Diamond Stripes, The Silver's (Wagon & Train)- He has given all these ample time in between races, and always had them prepared to fire their best shot in the big spots.
Steve V

Steve V. makes a great point, and the statistics from Formulator 4.1 back him up.  Over the last five years, Dutrow has only raced three horses off two weeks or less rest in Grade 1 races. 

Love of Money finished fifth in the 2005 Met Mile, Kazoo finished sixth in the 2007 Carter, and Ice Cool Kitty finished seventh in last year's Beldame.

Dutrow is 0-8 in all graded races with horses wheeling back in two weeks or less.  With those horses, he has three seconds (Dark Cheetah in 2006 Bold Ruler, K. D.'s Shady Lady in 2004 Tempted, Mr. Umphrey in 2008 Skip Away).

In non-graded stakes over the past five years, Dutrow is 1-14 with horses returning in two weeks or less.  The winner was Herecomeshollywood in the 2007 Mr. Prospector at Monmouth. 

Adding in all of his horses, Dutrow is 93-421 (22%, $1.80 ROI) over the past five years with horses returning within two weeks.

***

Rogi,
I recall that Congaree raced surprisingly late into his career (compared to his peers) without the administration of Lasix.  Because of this, I respected him more for his accomplishments, and always wondered if he might sire more durable runners.  I don't recall a more versatile multiple G1 winner since Precisionist. 

rr


Here are Congaree's lifetime past performances.  You'll note he raced with medication in every race.  You're probably thinking of another runner.

Download Congaree.pdf

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Dan,
I find the prospect's of Curlin skipping the B.C. Classic to run in the Arc or Japan Dirt intersting to say the least. Do you think it has to do with running on a synthetic surface? I know Jess Jackson wants to showcase him to the rest of the world but I'm skepticle that the thought of him running poorly over S.A.'s rubbish are scary. What are your thoughts?
Hillbilly

This has the potential to be a huge story.  After the trials and travails that Asmussen went through with Pyro over the Keeneland polytrack, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he skips the BC with Curlin because of the synthetic track. I'm not sure either international race is a better option as we all know that Asmussen likes shipping Curlin in ahead of time to get acclimated to his surroundings.  That probably wouldn't happen if Curlin goes to Paris or Japan.  It's too early to speculate, but the synthetic stuff is scary to some trainers.

***

Let's try to find a "sound" sire line tomorrow as well as discuss the interesting foreign imports for races like the Peter Pan and Belmont.

Cheers,

Dan

Posted by dan_illman on May 7, 2008 | Permalink

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Comments

Dan, a little off-topic, but have you heard anything about Bold Hawk? He won the Hawthorne Derby, finished third in the Hollywood Derby, then was to get some time off.

Posted by: mike on May 07, 2008 at 06:38 PM

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Vicstu,
The Bad Cat is into LSD???? :-)

Alan,

Could that be the reason EGM ran 5th in the SA Derby and why they are keeping him from the Preakness? Lets hope he redeems himself in the Lone Star Derby!

Interesting issue about Big Brown's possible bounce. I do not know if that would matter or not.

Harlem Rocker is now a possible for the Preakness. Interesting, I thought Pletcher said Canadian TC.

Sun G,

I also saw that on ESPN this afternoon (Behind the Lines).
No race day medication of horses and a Racing Commissioner along with a Mitchell type report.
It least its out there now. I am not holding my breath.

Could not believe Joe Drape said if racing does not do something about the on track deaths that Congress is going to step in and shut it down...

Really? Is the public that fed up?
Horses are always going to get hurt. I think medicating them exasterbates this on race day. Perhaps racing needs to figure a way to get all but the most damaged horses off of the track before they put them down. I know it seems like a waste of time to transport them to just put them down, and a logistical nightmare but, the technology is there to transport large injured animals at a zoo when injured. If they did not do that, the other animals might kill the injured one. The public knows this. Image is reality, and the public loves its animals. I just wish someone would get on TV and explain to the public why a horse has to walk off the track or be put down.
They do not understand. Thay ask, how are they moved after they are put down? They do not care about so-called practical reasons or even medical ones.

You are correct, however; the public thinks racing still shoots 'em where they fall if they cannot get up on their own volition. Circa 1932. All that has changed is we shoot them with a needle and not a gun. Florida State coach Bobby Bowden thought the Vets shot Eight Belles in the head with a gun. Can you believe that?

A PR nightmare. A PETA jackpot.

I know better than to think Congress will never intervene. Lets hope racing does something before they do, and that there are no on track fatalities in the Preakness or Belmont.

Now is not the time for racing to be sticking its head in the sand or defending its actions. It did not work for baseball.

Posted by: vicstu on May 07, 2008 at 06:43 PM

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Well Big Brown is 4 for 4, so when do you start calling him "GREAT"?

Posted by: jrzingg on May 07, 2008 at 06:52 PM

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SA's track has played fairly dirtlike, much less weird than Keeneland's surface, and Curlin is bred to handle turf as well as dirt if that angle holds any water, so it surprises (and disappoints) that he may not come here for the BC.

On a different note, the sad news about Sharp Cat dying was lost in all the other sad news. Does anybody know if they were able to save the AP Indy colt she was trying to foal?

Sharp Cat was one of my first "crushes". I well remember her coming down the stretch of some stakes race or other, far in front, and nearly dumping Corey Nakatani on the track when he dared to touch her with the whip.

Posted by: Kyri on May 07, 2008 at 06:56 PM

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Is anyone else amazed that someone hit the CD P6 today???

Posted by: Alan on May 07, 2008 at 07:02 PM

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Dan....amazing that you just wrote about Manila. When I was thinking of a good story to tell for my first post a few hours ago, I had it between him and Czaravich and I went with the latter. Here's the Manila story. My brother and I went to Belmont on Lexington day (when he beat Glow.) I hope my parents aren't reading this since we never told them. Anyway, we got into an accident on the Southern State Parkway. I can't remember if the turf was off, but the roads were slippery and we skidded and ran off the road. The car plowed into the trees, but we were ok. Unfortunately, the gear shift was busted. We thought about heading back home, but there was no way we were going to miss Manila. We were in awe of him even then. We started the car and it actually worked so we headed in the same direction and went to beautiful Belmont Park. I don't remember much else, except for Manila winning, which in turn paid for the damage to the car. Good thing we traveled onward instead of backwards. We glued the gear shift back on and never told the parents....lol.

He was awesome and deserving of HOF status much earlier than designated. BTW, we scored out in the BC when they made Dancing Brave the favorite.

Posted by: Jeff on May 07, 2008 at 07:17 PM

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BB Rags #'s.

He had a -1.

So, he will probably bounce a little according to there reports. RD, expects 5 and he that happens he'll probably win.

Posted by: larryk on May 07, 2008 at 07:19 PM

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Comments from Xheart Specialist:

Several weeks prior to the Kentucky Derby, we received a phone call from Marianna Haun, who has studied Thoroughbred genetics for the past 15 years and has been working with Dr. Fred Fregin, who’s been measuring horses’ hearts for 40 years. Haun’s second book is about to published, titled, “The X Factor: Solving the Mystery of Secretariat’s Heart.”

Haun called to say that Big Brown has inherited his broodmare sire Nureyev’s heart, one of the most superior she’s ever come across, and she had no doubt he would easily get the mile and a quarter of the Derby.

“My work began because of my quest to understand the amazing heart found in Secretariat at his autopsy,” she said following the Derby. “When I saw Big Brown, I recognized the similarity or family resemblance in him to horses expressing the Nureyev X chromosome. In measuring thousands of horses, we have learned to recognize family characteristics that travel with certain heartlines. We had identified this Nureyev X with its family resemblance and the extraordinary heart in his daughter Miesque and her sons. Big Brown bears a strong resemblance to Miesque and to Nureyev. This indicates that his dam, Mien, gave him the X chromosome she inherited from her sire. He is inbred to the Northern Dancer line which carries both speed and power from both his sire and dam. When the genetic spin of the wheel gives you those elements, combined with a heart the size of Secretariat, the results of the Kentucky Derby are not surprising.

“When we measured Miesque’s son, Kitalpha, we found the largest heart Dr. Fregin has seen in more than 40 years of measuring. It was the same size as Secretariat’s. Kitalpha bears a very close resemblance to his dam, Nureyev, and to Big Brown. So we know that the extraordinary heart of Nureyev is beating in Big Brown.”

Make of this what you wish, but any keys that can possibly unlock the mysteries of Big Brown are welcome.

Posted by: larryk on May 07, 2008 at 07:24 PM

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KD NEXT YR:

Getting back to Monba, we even went against our own rule of never picking a horse who did not have a workout at Churchill Downs. He did win at Churchill last year, so we overlooked that. Bad move.

Whatever the reason for Monba’s dreadful performance – perhaps he just gets intimidated when he gets banged around in heavy traffic and calls it a day – we still believe he’s a talented horse. But things apparently have to go his way. We’re not going to second-guess the move. We took a shot and it didn’t work. On to the next one.

On a brighter note, our overwhelming selection based on works and gallops, Denis of Cork, ran a big race to finish third at 27-1, so we’ll take some consolation from that.

Speaking of working at Churchill Downs, for the third year in a row the first three finishers in the Derby had at least one work at Churchill. Since finishing second in the Derby with 30-1 shot Bluegrass Cat, who had two works at Churchill, Pletcher has insisted on doing all his training over the Polytrack at Keeneland. There is little doubt that Keeneland is a great place to train a horse, but Pletcher is now 0-for-7 using that strategy, with all seven of his horses finishing off the board, two of them running last. They included the winners of the Blue Grass, Florida Derby, Louisiana Derby, Illinois Derby, Fountain of Youth, and Gotham, and the Blue Grass, Tampa Bay Derby, and Robert Lewis runners-up. Does that mean no horse will ever win the Derby training at Keeneland without having a work at Churchill Downs? Of course not. It’s just a statistic worth noting.

Posted by: larryk on May 07, 2008 at 07:26 PM

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Last 134 Derby Thoughts:

Returning to Big Brown’s :35 2/5 blowout two days before the race, credit Rick Dutrow for going back to the old school of training and keeping his horse sharp. Most of the other leading contenders were given their final Derby work anywhere from six to nine days out, none of them longer than five furlongs. Welcome to Derby training light.

Remember the good old days – well, not that old – when horses actually ran in both the Derby and Preakness? Now, it seems as if most everyone is afraid to bring their horses back in two weeks. There’s nothing wrong with being conservative and taking the safe approach if a horse appears to be fragile, but let’s also remember that the first two finishers in last year’s Breeders’ Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I) were the only two horses to compete in all three Triple Crown races.

Another indication that trainers are treating the Derby like any other race: can anyone remember two horses getting blinkers on for the first time in the Derby and two horses getting blinkers off? Those moves certainly didn’t work, but how about Dutrow putting front wraps on Big Brown for the first time? Another bold move that the colt shrugged off, just as he has shrugged off two straight dreaded outside posts -- in the Kentucky Derby and Florida Derby -- and running in the Kentucky Derby off only three career starts. Have we mentioned the word freak yet?

Posted by: larryk on May 07, 2008 at 07:29 PM

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Almost forgot. Johnny Z and Alan - Thanks for your gracious comments. Appreciate you both taking the time to read it. I just had to defend the Colonel a bit. All most folks had to say was how the synthetic horses ran like (you know what), and based on NBC's live feed, it was hard to notice what kind of move he actually made.

I doubt he would have won or ran second even, but I stand firm that he was the third best horse in the race.

Dan....I can't for the life of me remember the name of the horse Donna Ysidra produced either the year or following year after Manila. I wish I still had access to the Jockey Club database. That was the one of the greatest perks of the job back in the mid 90's. Could you please run down all her foals in your next column? Thanks.

Posted by: Jeff on May 07, 2008 at 07:32 PM

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Vicstu -

It is not about respecting ones opinion it is about providing accurate information. ALL of this is online and was easily found in the statutes....use lexis or west. I provided the actual rules, regs and the policy that the vet SHALL follow. There is nothing about the vet contacting the connections....maybe you think they should but it is not part of the law. You suggested as such and went on to raise the possibility of the connections actually suing the track. I am just trying to set the record strait as many may read your post and come to the wrong conclusion. PETA was issuing wrong information and that is why I compared what you were doing to them. Your last post again does not acknowledge that the vet does not need to make a call.

Public policy DOES NOT trump the law..even good public policy...I wish it did as my job would be easy. Judicial opinions can trump law or a legislative body can amend or create it.

The KY statutes, rules and regs actually state that the racing secretary is the keeper of the connections info. There is no requirement for the on track vet to keep it - that does not mean that they do not have it. The code also mandates that the trainer or designee be present in the paddock when their horse is present. The regs mandate this so again, the vet in the paddock doesn’t call anyone with a scratch other than the secretary - the connections have to be present for the reason you mention - again the regs are clear on this.

I represent physicians so I understand that they need to meet the regulations of the state medical board just as there is a similar state body for vets. But this too is online in most if not all states. It is in a different section of the state code. Now if you believe the vet needs to follow their professional society’s policies and that these policies hold the power of the law you are incorrect. If one does not follow their society’s policies then they could forfeit that societies certification etc. If a society’s policy is not in line with a law, they need to follow the law not a policy.

Vicstu, I do enjoy your posts but I think there was some misinformation as you presented your thoughts for what the policy should be, not the actual law.

GLAD I didn’t go to law school. I can’t focus on this weeks races as I am off to my 20th high school reunion but I hope that the Preakness card has some depth.

John r

Posted by: john r on May 07, 2008 at 07:39 PM

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Purse Cuts Planned at CDI-Owned Tracks
A Churchill Downs Inc. official said May 7 purses at Churchill Downs in Louisville, Ky., could be cut the week of May 11, while Calder Race Course in South Florida could face another reduction in purses. More...

Posted by: larryk on May 07, 2008 at 07:43 PM

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larryk,

the blinker changes were in the best interest for the horses' running style...

Posted by: Riley on May 07, 2008 at 07:52 PM

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Alan,

Very surprised someone at that pk 6 at CD

Posted by: larryk on May 07, 2008 at 07:56 PM

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Jeff,

Here are Dona Ysidro's foals:

Manila – 1983 (Lyphard) ($2,692,799)
Stately Don – 1984 (Nureyev) ($404,744)
Tarlac – 1985 (Mr. Prospector) ($0)
Barkada – 1986 (Devil’s Bag) ($0)
Kasama – 1987 (Devil’s Bag) ($0)
Sister Sass – 1989 (Lyphard) ($0)

Sister Sass was the only filly, she has had four foals, only one of which (River Sass) made it to the track.

Posted by: Steve T on May 07, 2008 at 08:11 PM

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Jeff,
http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/dona+ysidra
This is a great website for pedigree questions. Here are her foals:
BARKADA 1986 DEVIL'S BAG
KASAMA 1987 DEVIL'S BAG
MANILA 1983 LYPHARD
SISTER SASS 1989 LYPHARD
STATELY DON 1984 NUREYEV
TARLAC 1985 MR. PROSPECTOR

And Jeff,
For my bankroll, I continue to hope and pray that most horseplayers see Colonel John's 6th place finish in the Derby as validation that they are correct in taking synthetic track BSFs at face value when handicapping shippers to dirt tracks - other than perhaps 2nd-out maidens, it is IMO the best ROI angle still out there...

Posted by: Alan on May 07, 2008 at 08:12 PM

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Kyri
I also saw the article on Sharp Cat, and wondered what happened to her foal.

http://drf.com/news/article/94231.html

anyone know?

SR Vegas

Posted by: SR Vegas on May 07, 2008 at 08:12 PM

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Hi Everyone

My head is spinning from catching up with reading here,
...so many subjects, opinions, debates, theories, conjecture, passions, pains, rules, agree to disagree's...Ok, Ok, I know you get my gist.

But, it ALWAYS amazes me that this group,
(as I tell my young neices and nephews) will always
"play nice" with each other.

You do not find this anywhere else and I salute you all.

(well, expect for a certain name calling one time poster I saw..Circut Breaker, or something?)
.
Dan...
Thank you for your continued time and support of this group of truly extrodinare FormBlog participants.

SR Vegas

Posted by: SR Vegas on May 07, 2008 at 08:25 PM

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SRV...
How R You?
The colt is on a nurse mare:
http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/44994.htm

Has anyone seen C?? Hide all knives, ropes, prescription medications and guns:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/horseracing/ny-spnyra0508,0,2681373.story
I actually thought mpm101 was at first joking - but it's true!!
Now I really am getting ill...
Saratoga ~~ synthetic racing???

I guess the good news is that the synthetic Beyer issues will somehow get quickly solved once NYRA tracks become synthetic (As you might remember, I used to joke about that scenario - now it's actually going to happen!!)

Posted by: Alan on May 07, 2008 at 08:33 PM

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larryk,
When Big Brown is sleeping in Stall 40 at Pimlico next week, I'm going to sneak into there and do an echocardiogram on him!!
Regarding the P6, the funny thing is I loved (but couldn't bet because of the impasse...) the 50/1 horse in the final race! Here were the PPs:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/daleromans_109412.pdf
#6 Future Prospect (ML:20/1) was aptly named - his future was just 2-years late!! The son of Freud was a 2ndTS after a 2+year absence - 1st-out was a 4.5f 50K KEE msw baby race! Works a couple of times in spring 2007, then off again until a repeated series of works starting in late March (6 in a month) leading up to this 15K maiden claimer!

Posted by: Alan on May 07, 2008 at 09:13 PM

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Saez whipped Eight Belles seven times during the stretch, and only once, left-handed, inside the sixteenth pole, when it appeared she was getting close to the rail. At least seven was my count, but I may have missed one because of the quality of video on the replay.

Churchill Super Hi Five for Thursday, cold: 4 / 6 / 3 / 7 / 8

Posted by: bandini on May 07, 2008 at 09:33 PM

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Dan,

Enjoyed the excerpt on Manila. Got me thinking back to one of my favorite turf horses, Yankee Affair. They bought him for $10k and he wound up winning over $2 million winning turf stakes races until he was eight! I am friends with the trainer and had the pleasure of going to AC with him for the 1990 Caesers Intl. Steinlen won the race. Weather was hot but the drinks were cold! Could you please post his lifetime pp's?

thanks!

Posted by: dk on May 07, 2008 at 09:34 PM

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Alan,

Slip the echo here.

Not alot to go on in that race. One thought, I had since most had some starts, why not look at someone fresh or not alot of history. That would be the only way I could come up with that one.
And there was another like him too.

Best Wishes on your trip to Belm.

Posted by: larryk on May 07, 2008 at 09:38 PM

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Alan,

I know you keep Klein Track Bias ratings and I was wondering if you have found it worthwhile to separate sprints from routes for main track races. In the past I have lumped them all together. Do they differ enough to do the extra work or should I stick to what I have done in the past? Also do you do the same for turf races? Usually there are only one or two turf races so that would make it more difficult.

Thanks,

Lenny

Posted by: aparagon4u on May 07, 2008 at 11:15 PM

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Hey vicstu and John r;

I owe an apology here in that I unintentionally began a debate that cannot be won (and should not be conducted on this forum). For this, I apologize.

vicstu - Your passion and knowledge on this subject is beyond commendable. I simultaneously wish that I had that make-up, and thank God that I don't. Be true to yourself.

John r - You are well-armed, and logical. Your posts are thought-provoking, and most-appreciated.

For my part, I swear that I was only asking vicstu to provide informaion to me that I was not privy to. I deleted the first reply at around 7:00 a.m., and against my better judgement, crafted a new one last night.

I do not wish to make it seem that this debate doesn't matter, because, of course, it does. But I suspect that it doesn't matter here, on the FormBlog, because while this about everything, some things are too emotional, too perosnal, too intense. Elsewhere is more appropriate, I suspect.

We have something special here. Let's not lose sight of that, and let's not get away from what brings us all here.

Where are Dionisus and Apollo when you need them?
Van Savant

Posted by: Van Savant on May 07, 2008 at 11:48 PM

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Hi Alan
Thank you for the Sharp Cat/foal link, I'm sure Kyri also appreciated it.
I've been reading alot, posting occasionally, and hardly handicapping...
But, soooo enjoy this forum.
Family matters are keeping my attention lately (so has Web MD) but this Blog Family has really helped me out.
I'm looking forward to the Peter Pan , and next weeks Preakness...
It's good to be a horse racing fan, even with all the recent highs and lows.
I LOVE this time of year!

SR Vegas

..Alan, do you need someone to carry yours and your wife's 'gack' bags, at the Belmont...I could be available.
he-he-he !!

Posted by: SR Vegas on May 07, 2008 at 11:51 PM

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Lenny,
First of all congratulations on your contest results - Intangaroo...where did you ever pick that one???

I only keep KTB for certain meetings (KEE, SAR, DMR and currently BEL.) I keep the formulas on an excel spreadsheet so they are very easy to enter - just 1st, 2nd, other first 1/2 and second 1/2 totals (exclude <=3/5 favs and 4.5f races.) Although they are not useful on a daily basis, in aggregate I find some differences in the 1 and 2 turn ratings. Last year, I even kept separate ratings for inner and outer turf at SAR (I forget now, but I think there actually was a difference!)

They really don't help me that much in terms of establishing clear trends for bias, but they allow me to notice the "trend breakers" to then follow next out.

Posted by: Alan on May 08, 2008 at 12:03 AM

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Alan,

Thanks for your concern. I thought NYRA didn't want to make a knee-jerk reaction like the CHRB did. I'm not trying to be callous about it, but where was the outrage and call for change when Pine Island broke down in the Distaff at Churchill 2 years ago?

Why is this industry so reluctant to discuss drugs? So far, Arthur Hancock and Jenine Sahadi have come the closest to blowing the whistle on HBO Real Sports. Where is everyone else? Where are the so-called "oats, hay, and water" guys like Nafzger, Matz, and Shug? I find it odd that very few of them are willing to even suggest that pain-masking drugs probably contribute more to breakdowns than the surface. Are they afraid of losing their friends? What is the deal, guys? Come on... Drysdale? Sheriffs? Mott? Howard? Anyone? Someone needs to speak up... believe me, the fans (and many owners) will support you 110% for blowing the whistle here.

Anyway, a few things for NYRA to consider:

First, the "Test of the champion" will be contested on a different surface, giving a middle finger to the history and legacy of the sport's most sought-after accomplishment. Imagine if Big Brown were to win the Preakness by 5, and then gets beat on polytrack at 1-5, denying him the triple crown... everyone will blame the track, but nobody will really know for sure. Most of the old timers will be bowing out at that point. Also, if Asmussen doesn't want Curlin to run at Santa Anita this year, would he have skipped the Belmont for the same reason last year?

Second, the Breeders Cup, which uses Belmont as one of its go-to venues, will be contested on artificial more often than dirt. The title 'Dirt Mile' will become a real joke.

Third, Saratoga, the most famous racetrack in the country (with the possible exception of Churchill), will be altered, causing tons of bad blood and a mass exodus of serious bettors... trust me, this will happen. In fact, it already is. Messing with Saratoga will just make it happen a lot quicker.

Fourth, we get a lot of rain and bad weather up here, so NYRA might experience the same drainage problems Santa Anita had earlier this year. Imagine a 10-day shutdown of Saratoga? Major disaster.

Fifth, it sounds like many NY trainers will go elsewhere. According to the article, I think Dutrow will be one and Baffert may relocate again too.

All I can say is "whatever". I suppose I can become a regular Louisiana player or something, but if the triple crown and Saratoga are altered, my overall enthusiasm will dip quite a bit. Let's just see what happens.

PS: I'm more shocked that anyone was even able to play Churchill today. I guess the winner wasn't from Calder. My brain is still trying to process that mess...

PPS: Happy with NYRA or not, I'll be tracking you down at Belmont in June.

Posted by: C on May 08, 2008 at 12:17 AM

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Alan,

Much to my dismay and heart break someone did hit the CD P/6. I hit 5/6, and had the 2,7,10 in the 9th. I was already celebrating. I saw #6 as being no where ready to run. Why didn't you post tonights post last night? I might have won 1m+ verses 3k.

Have been studing the late P/4 @ HLW for tomorrow. The 8th is a talent loaded baby race for this early in the year!

My pick to win is #3 Fassnacht; mainly on pedigree, but also has a great work pattern in his last 3,which is strong with 2 yr olds IMO. Also will play #6 Cut The Check in the P/4.
Unsure in the other 3 at this time, but will definetly use #5 Good Mood in the 7th, good closer with a BUNCH of early speed in this race.

Jeff, great story! Sounds like some of the road trips I took as a teenager. Also, I am not giving up on Colonel John. Everyone needs to remember that his daddy, Tiznow really didn't run a lick untill the fall of his 3 yr old races. CJ will definetly improve as the season goes on. As I posted earlier, I wish Harty would ship him to Baltimore.

LarryK, thanks for the imformative post. While studying hundreds of hours on pedigrees, I know little about the Xchromsosome enlarged heart factor. Most of what I know, is what Vicstu has posted. It is very apparent that the Nureyev Xchromsome factor exists. The one thing I do know, is I have never observed a horse as calm and rested after a 10F race as Big Brown was last Saturday. I think my post that night was something to the effect that he looked no worse for wear than a 4F Gallop.

Others have posted about the fact that he was not sweating, wasn't breathing hard etc. He maybe a freak, (super star)!

I was not on the BB band wagon before the Derby. But had to slap myself with some reality: BB has dominated every race he has ran in, some of those there is no way he could have been in top form because of physical elements, he has won on turf, on a sloppy track, won from the un-win able 12 hole @ GP, with ease, won from the 20 hole in the Derby, and showed the ability to rate, (intelligence).

I feel if this one stays healthy we will see a Triple Crown winner. After watching his wins over and over again, BB has played with his competition, including the Derby. KD., if he wanted to could have sent BB earlier and won by 10, IMO. THAT IS NOT A KNOCK on Eight Belles, just a statement as how I feel about BB being a really special horse!

A few weeks down the road we will all know! Best wishes to all, and good luck tomorrow!

Posted by: johnnyz on May 08, 2008 at 01:45 AM

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John R.,

You win about Ky law. I am way too busy for researching that extensively. I will take your word. When this all began I merely was speaking from experience at a Florida track, where Vets have to keep a log of each injury and have to document all steps taken during an injury. I was familiar with the Model Code which Florida modeled its provisions after, but you seem to be much more of an expert than I am on Kentucky law. Thank you for letting me know about that.

On public policy, I think you may be confusing public policy making (a legislative function), with the legal theory of public policy and the legal priciple of conflict of laws (which is what I was talking about). Laws are challenged every day in Declaratory Judgement actions, but it is for the courts to decide what is void ab initio and unenforceable.

Under a legal theory called conflict of law rules, courts can and do refuse to enforce contracts, administrative rules and even a law if challenged as unconstitutional and against public policy.

Laws that attempt to exempt overtime pay for salaried employees, make killing a fetus illegal, and allow the mass distribution of private personal data have been declared void as against public policy by the courts, as they are in conflict with existing law (constitution, statutory, etc.).

Public policy is merely the existing expression of any jurisdiction's collection of codified law and judicial orders, together with the State's Constitution and existing federal rights. I think you are mixing up public policy making- with the theory of public policy that courts invoke (and I am talking about).

This is not the forum for citing court cases backing this up, but they are legion. This area of law is very complex. I did get a high grade in both Administrative Law and Constitutional Law. Where did you study about this area of law?

I respect what you do as a lobbyist, I could never do it, and the public disdains lobbyists, lawyers and used car salesmen about the same.
And if we keep this up here they are going to disdain us here as well. See, we have something in common. The public hates our professions. And lawyers do not like laypeople who pull statutes out of thin air, in a vacuum, and use it to make a point on an issue that is very complex.

If the law was that easy, there would be no need for lawyers. I wish it was that easy, actually. You have reached conclusions on Kentucky law that would take a Kentucky Law Clerk a week to adequetly research. And you are under no obligation to research existing Ky case law on the subject. That's good.

I am not, repeat, not given legal advice on Kentucky law. I trust that to you. Please do not think I am giving any advice at all. Just my limited opinion.

Van Savaant is correct, lets bury the hatchet and move on. We have much more in common than we do not have in common. We are horseplayers.

I love this game. Lets look forward to this weekend and the Preakness...Peace.

Posted by: vicstu on May 08, 2008 at 02:08 AM

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'Real Sports' to Examine Horse Slaughter
The slaughter of Thoroughbred horses for profit will be examined by HBO's "Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel" in a one-hour show that debuts on May 12 beginning at 10 p.m. ET/PT.

Posted by: larryk on May 08, 2008 at 07:01 AM

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Alan,

Thanks for the response. I ended up on Intangaroo in the contest after I realized I needed to make up alot of ground with only two races to go. She was a huge overlay. Luckily my cousin had his iPhone and was able to connect to the MJC wireless network so I was able to change my selection. However I couldn't make my bet in the Sweep the Crown Xpressbet challenge. It wouldn't let me submit my wager, but in the end it saved me $25 because I was going to bet Smooth Air.

Any chance you'll be playing the Delaware tournament on June 14th?

Lenny

Posted by: aparagon4u on May 08, 2008 at 08:22 AM

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NYRA may not be as shortsighted as it seems. An article in todays NY Post, unfortunately only in print and not online, by Ed Fontaine says that yesterdays story was overstated and that change is not imminent. Among other reasons is that the cost of the change over, about $50 million, is beyond the means of the NYRA and that synthetics are still unproven.

mpm101

Posted by: mpm101 on May 08, 2008 at 10:10 AM

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mpm101 (and everyone else),

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05082008/sports/nyra_not_ready_to_go_synthetic_109942.htm

From the article:

"What came over in the story is that it's imminent, and that is not at all the case," NYRA spokesman John Lee said. "There has been no change in our outlook. We are looking at [a possible conversion], but are not in a position financially to do anything about it.

"That is probably a good thing because these synthetic surfaces are still unproven," Lee said. "Our first logical move would be to convert the Belmont training track."

Aqueduct-based Rick Dutrow Jr., trainer of Kentucky Derby winner Big Brown, said, "I would be completely lost training and racing on it. I'll never go back to California. Hopefully, they don't invade New York."

Hall of Famer Nick Zito, with stables at Belmont and Saratoga, is a leading critic of synthetic surfaces, which he calls "stuff from your attic."

Already, Zito notes, they are changing the nature of the sport.

"This is a very big issue for the whole industry that needs to be discussed," said Zito, chairman of the National Horse Protection Coalition. "Why spend $50 million on synthetic garbage we know nothing about? Before we rush to judgment again, shouldn't we study how much money it would take to put in safe, state-of-the-art dirt tracks?"

Bettors, it seems, side with Dutrow and Zito. Handle at the spring meet at Keeneland, which races over synthetic Polytrack, was down 12.7 percent.

Posted by: Greg on May 08, 2008 at 11:13 AM

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RE: Current Hot Topics

I completely agree with C about the need for more trainers to speak out. Some are, but not enough are... A couple of days ago CBS News was interviewing trainers at Belmont Park and Mark Hennig commented about the need to eliminate steroids from the sport, pointing out that a horse's body (musculoskeletal system) is simply not designed to carry the excess muscle mass and weight that steroids use (particularly heavy use) brings on... Makes common sense, right???

NYRA better never, ever, ever switch to synthetic surfaces! There will always be some level of breakdowns (like horses in fields) but the most effective action will be to eliminate drugs and enforce with severe penalties... Didn't just this past year, Saratoga ran many more horses than Del Mar but had fewer breakdowns??? Besides, if I was a horse or jockey, I don't think I'd want to be enhaling that stuff getting kicked back at me...we may not know for years about this potential negative side effect...

Posted by: Blue Horseshoe on May 08, 2008 at 11:18 AM

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Lenny,
No, I'm doing an NHCQualifier online (two entries) the week before - my 1st one this year (I was going to wait until after we moved, but I was getting impatient!) BTW, I lost on the Xpressbet challenge with DoC...

Johnnyz,
Sorry...despite being shut out from wagering, I've been trying to handicap the CD maiden races, mainly the 2yoraces (BTW, Segal, the winner of CD5, looks like a nice horse - great connections, nice pedigree and a Grp1 BreezeFig to boot - of course he went off at even money!!) I never would have picked CD4 (I think that was Lanerie's 1st win at the meeting) or CD7 right so I likely saved myself money anyway!! Congrats on a great score!!

Speaking of 2yo maiden races and Breeze Figs, I gotta pick for later today:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/dougoneill_109632.pdf
HOL8 (msw 4.5f 2yo): #9 Nochangenweather (ML:6/1) -> not a pedigree play (by Lightnin N Thunder - only 2nd year of starters and only one 1st-out winner; FS won in 3rd start - a MC'er); but a trainer play (Guillot was 21-6-1-3 with FTS last year with ROI 7.60), a Breeze Fig play (BARMAR08 Grp1 5-over PAR, avgSL +0.13), a purchase play ($400K purchase for a $4K sire) and working well. But watch out for #4 Azul Leon - Lion Heart has started strongly as a sire. (WP #9)

Good luck today!!!
Alan

Posted by: Alan on May 08, 2008 at 11:58 AM

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Dan,

Thanks for another great Past Champions retrospective!

Thoroughbred horse racing has a rich heritage that is filled with stores of great thoroughbreds and individuals. That's why I originally began studying pedigrees three years ago - to learn more about the history of horse racing.

Since you began this series, I've gone online and purchased some old editions of The American Racing Manual from Ebay - and I'm so glad that I did.

When I thumb through the pages of those old manuals I’m taken back to a time when horse racing truly was King. Every page is a delight of racing’s rich history but I especially like the “Past Performances of the Great Horses of the 20th Century” section. When I look at those past performances, I’m overcome with awe of the greatest horses in the history of horse racing and I’m struck by how much racing has, in my opinion, declined since those glorious days.

Your work on the Past Champions retrospective is very important. If we have an understanding of our glorious past then maybe changes can be made in the present to recapture the glory of those olden times.

These days, we need more stories about horse racing's glorious past. And I thank you for championing that!

Posted by: Calvin Carter on May 08, 2008 at 12:06 PM

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Enough already!

I apologize ahead of time for posting this several paragraph reply regarding the "law" with john r, who is apparently the Blog's new legal expert. Please skip this post if you want to read about handicapping. This is a last ditch attempt to end this back and forth between john r and vicstu. I want to set the record straight and remind john r that when he posts advice and specific interpretations of the law to a group he is attempting to give legal opinions. Stick to your opinion and you will be ok.

The last thing I want to read is anyone's take on the law here. Except maybe Big Easy or another lawyer. I am forced to set the record straight so some people here do not think you are correctly applying "the law". And Van Savaant. Thanks for trying to get a win-win situation here. One party or another will not let this go. Nice try.

What follows is my opinion and is not legal advice to any specific person or group.

Vicstu, why do you keep responding to john r? It is patent by just reading his last post that he will not let this go. Do not answer him. You are helping this to drag on.

John R, I like your horse racing posts, and you seem like a nice guy. Concerning the law, especially Kentucky law, you are relying on one small section of the law to the exclusion of the rest. You know the saying: a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.

I have told you once before I have experience as a criminal and contract lawyer, with a specialized area of practice in sports law. I am no expert on Kentucku law, but I was able to Shepardize numerous case law and other statutes that are far more applicable to DVMs at a track or at an office, than the Racing Commision laws and provisions you are talking about.

There is a reason why the Racing Commission is silent on record keeping and euthanization procedures for DVMs. They have no jurisdiction. The racing commission has no authority to regulate DVMs or their conduct, nor spell out what they shall or shall not do. The legislature intended for the licensing laws under the Kentucky Vetrinary Practice Act of 1992 (KRS 321.521 et seq.), and KAR 16.10 to govern the conduct of all Veterinarians, unless specifically excluded by exemption(track vets are not excluded).

Also, the relationship between the Vet and the track is as much contractual as statutory. Contract law is a horse of a different color but is relevant here.

A majority of track Vets are p/t independent contractors and have their own private practice. Any state Vets at the track are employees of the state and not the track. Any track employee who is also a DVM must follow the law and regulations for DVMs. Now, your points:

That law you are citing concerning the Racing Commision does not control the practice of Vetrinary medicine, rob. The Vet is required to follow the provisions of law and regulations regarding the practice of all DVM's. Any "obligations" under any Racing Commission law is general and incidental at best...Any omission of a duty of a DVM is meanigless, because the Racing Commission cannot tell a DVM how the practice his craft. Period.

If you had law school training, you would understand how naive you sound citing one small provision of the law like it exists in a vacuum. The Racing Commission has very limited power over a DVM who is employed as a general contractor. It cannot tell a DVM how to keep records, etc. It can instruct on keeping an "Injury Log" consistent with the Vetrinary Board's regs and law.

The statutes and case law of the Commonwealth of Kentucky should be viewed as a collective whole. The limited Act and laws you are citing are supposed to be read in conjunction and harmony with any other provision of law. Record keeping and notice by a DVM involves the practice of vet. medicine, which is beyong the Racing Board's jurisdiction. The legislature is presumed to know each exists in its current state and the provisions of KRS 320 et. seq., where different or in conflict with the law regarding Race Track Operations and duties, the specific contols the general, and KRS 321-The Kentucky Vetrinarian Practices Act controls notice for euthenization, operations, record keeping, etc. The fact that these obligations are not imposed under the law you cited is beside the point, as The Kentucky Vetrinarians Practices Act controls how and when a DVM can practice Vet. Medicine (even at a race track).

Below is one of many statutory provisions concerning the conduct and licensing of DVMs in Kentucky:

Kentucky R. Statutes

"321.175 Purpose for certain sections of chapter

It is hereby declared that the practice of veterinary medicine is a privilege which is granted by legislative authority in the interest of public health, safety, and welfare. To protect the public from being misled by incompetent, unscrupulous, and unauthorized practitioners, and from unprofessional or illegal practices by persons licensed to practice veterinary medicine, KRS 321.175, 321.181, 321.185, 321.190, 321.193, 321.195, 321.200, 321.201, 321.205, 321.211, 321.221, 321.230, 321.235, 321.237, 321.240, 321.320, 321.351, 321.360, 321.441, 321.443, and 321.990 are enacted in the interest of the health, safety, and welfare of the animal population and the citizens of Kentucky."

The Kentucky Board of Veterinary Examiners, pursuant to the Ky. Veterinary Practices Act of 1992, has the statutory authority to administer and enforce all provisions under Kentucky Law regarding the conduct of any licensed DVMs. At a track, at the Shelter, or in private practice. Period.

See- 3321.235 Powers and duties of board

The board shall administer and enforce the provisisions of the statute, promulgate rules, prosecute and adjudicate violations, define and prohibit conduct. And it has the force of law. The Horse Racing Commission, by contrast, has little (if any) statutory jurisdiction over DVMs at racetracks.

Here is a link to the Board, which promulagates rules and interprets law, which have the full force and effect of Ky law:

http://finance.ky.gov/ourcabinet/caboff/OAS/op/vetexam/

BTW, the only person who suggested that the connections sue CD for anything was Crazy Rob who posted this at 9:08 PM on May 6th due to track conditions. I took it to be hyperbole or simple disgust. Although Rob may know of grounds to sue under such a scenario. In any event, this assertion that vicstu or anyone else advised the connections to sue CD is false.

You are correct when you say the Vet is not required to get consent or keep records under the Racing Board's provisions. So what? The Vetrinary Practices Act says they do, and that, and not the Racing Commission, has jurisdiction to set forth rules and duties for DVMs. Read carefully: The legislature has deferred to the expert opinion of the Board as set forth under state law. The Board, which are practicing DVMs and lawyers, has the power to promulgate rules that have the force of law which DVMs are compelled to follow. Nothing you have cited from the Racing Commission can limit or control a DVM. The Memo on Euthanization of Horses that you link to is utterly off point here. Amazingly, the memo you linked to addresses injuries and scratches, and specifically covers the trainer's responsibilities to euthanize in conjunction with his private Vet and has nothing to do with your subject matter or complete discretion given to a Vet to euthanize at the expense of state law and regulations concerning DVMs. Nothing. You need to read this link you provided very carefully. It gives the track Vet the discretion to decide what horse to scratch due to injury. There's nothing about granting unlimited discretion to euthanize absent notice or anything else that would be completely in conflict with the law and rules created under the Kentucky Vetrinary Protection Act, or the licensing Board:

http://www.khra.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2181034F-7CCE-44A5-ACFF-1D5B4F8A71C2/0/Euthanizing.pdf

"Public policy DOES NOT trump the law..even good public policy...I wish it did as my job would be easy. Judicial opinions can trump law or a legislative body can amend or create it."

The above is your quote. What is "good public policy?" . You have lost me. Public policy is the collected embodiment of a State's various laws, regulations and judicial decisions and administrative promulations and orders. Public policy is a judicial rule that is invoked under various instances such as conflicts of law,unconstitutional laws, where a judicial officer or body fashions a remedy consistent with that State's existing public policy. For instance, a new law prohibiting anyone from killing a fetus would be challenged as being both against established public policy as well as federal constitutional case law. Public policy is not policy making by a legislature, it is existing laws, rules, statutes, etc. Given that case law and existing law make up public policy, your point regarding "only the courts" and the legislature makes no sense at all. The courts and the legislature are all a part of public policy.

You claim that the Ky Statutes and rules do not say that a Vet must jeep records of patients or owners. Again, so what? The Kentucky Racing board rules covers racing officials. The Racing Board does not have anything more than ancillary jurisdiction over the track Vet, the Kentucky Board of Vet. Examiners does. A racing board cannot supervise any aspect of the practice of veterinary medicine--Who on earth told you that? It is not correct.

Under the laws that cover the practice of Vet. Medicine, and all regulations made therof, it specifically requires that all liicensed vets keep records of all animals under his or her care, and specifically:
"A licensed Vet. is required to obtain consent from the owner before administering any general anesthesia, chemical restraint, or before performing any surgical procedure, unless:
1. The owner is not readily available.
2. Circumstances qualifying as an emergency do not permit such consent, by phone or in person;
3. The owner has specifically waived this requirement. 201 KAR 16.010 et seq. Find the specific provision yourself.

The legislature has defined euthanasia as both a medical procedure and a chemical restraint. The Board has also defined "emergency" as that which
exists when:

A. The animal has been placed in a life threatening situation; and
B. Immediate treatment is needed to sustain life and control pain.

If an emergency exists, a Vet can proceed to treat or operate without consent of the owner of the injury is life threatening AND treatment is needed to sustain life and control pain.

In the instance you keep referring to, there was no treatment given to that horse to control pain and sustain life. Rather, they put her down. Exemption not applicable. The emergency provisions do not apply.

DVM regulations require a DVM to get consent before putting down an animal, unless consent is not readily avalable from the owner. According to the American Association of Equine Practioners (Dr. Bramlage's group), only in extreme circumstances may a vet. act on a horse's behalf wothout an owner or trainer's consent. Most all exceptions involve the owner not being available by phone or in person. The group also says that the horse is the responsibility of the owner or agent, and not the vet. "A vet cannot decide whether to euthanize your horse no matter what its condition, unless death is imminent and the owner is not available to consent", and the public safety or welfare is at stake. True, track Vets have broad discretion, but in this instance the owner and trainer were a mere 200 yards away. Note:
The AAEP had a hand in suggesting the language for Kentucky animal euthanization laws.

See: Euthanasia, The Most Difficult Decision, for more by the American Assoc. of Equine Practicioners.

Your contention that because other laws that may pertain to DVMs is in another section of the statutory code, the DVM is controlled by the law you cited is vapid. Two laws in completely different sections of the law must be read in consideration of each other and in harmony. There is no law in a vacuum. DVMs must follow the procedures and guidelines set forth by the State Board which regulates the practice of Veter. medicine. And no "societies", these are agencies of the Commonwealth of Ky. If they do not comply they can lose their license, be publicly censored, etc. The Horse Racing Commission has no such authority over a Vet. If they lose their license, they cannot be track Vet. The racing commission cannot revoke a Vet license or discipline a DVM.

Vets follow procedures set forth in under the law specific to DVMs, and the Kentucky Administrative Regulations. Specifically, 201 KAR 16.010 et. seq. The Commissioner of Racing has no authority to control the practice of DVMs, and the legislature does not purport to give them such authority.

The specific trumps the general.
The Board has specific authority over DVMs or MDs. Not the Racing Authority. If both attempt to, the specific is binding.

And then there are the several court cases that I found that contradict what you are alleging is "the law". I am not going to waste my time or yours with that.
It just adds to this issue.

I also think Slew Lady may have a point because all we know is that Jones and Porter were not contacted. We do not know if they tried unsuccesfully to contact, then decided that time was of the essence.

And vicstu, you cannot fault Bramlage for doing his job with the AAEP as spokesman. I am sure he had no clue that neither Jones or Porter had been contaced, and it is really not his concern (its the track vet and the patrol judges with him holding down the horse).

Rob r, you are a knowledgable horseman and no doubt a good lobbyist. Please stop arguing law.

If none of this registers with you, than I give up. Either way, I am not discussing this any further so do not respond and expect further reply. And you and vicstu should follow my lead.

And I do like you jon, just not when you are lecturing on "the law". I hope you enjoy your 20th reunion. I went to my 20th a couple of years back and boy had some people changed, and several had passed on. Time marches on.

Now, lets talk horses!

Great post, larryk, regarding the enlarged heart of Big Brown and the article verifying this. This would seem to verify all of that LH-X information and theory that someone, perhaps vicstu or calvin, was posting here.

Who do you like besides BB in the Preakness? I AM interested in your take on the Preakness when you are ready, john r.

Posted by: svhill on May 08, 2008 at 12:41 PM

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For those able to wager on it today, here are the PPs for the CD9 Super Hi-5 (track sloppy, #2 scratch):
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/vinery_109703.pdf
Luckily, I'm shut out - it looks impossible!! Forget picking the winner...who can you throw out in the 4th-5th spot?? And call me crazy, but how can you not bet Shamuuu (at ML:30/1) on a wet track???

Posted by: Alan on May 08, 2008 at 01:04 PM

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vicstu -

I don't mind a spirited debate - obviously I enjoy it - and that is why I'm in the business I'm in. Isn't it great we are both loathed by the public! I agree about moving on.

Van Savant – You offer good advice and vicstu and I both appreciate it.

Alan – too bad you won’t be at the Preakness. I gave up the infield for reserved seats about 7 years ago….my girlfriend at the time got biffed off the top of the head twice with full unopened cans of beer - tells you something - why isn't it empty? That’s a lot of fun. Don’t know if it is a bit safer post 9/11. The reserved seats aren’t bad and I never have an issue getting bets in using the self serve machines.

Et al –

There has been significant discussion, in fact for over many years on this blog, about the weakening of the breed, drugs, etc. There has also been discussion about how horseplayers are treated like #$%! by the industry.

Many have discussed solutions and they make a lot of sense. A key impediment is certainly that the industry is regulated at the state level and there is a mishmash of laws/rules that differ from state to state. Drugs are the tip of the iceberg. Vicstu actually pointed out “model” regulations that may improve the situation if all states adopted them – but that won’t happen. Another issue is to regulate at the federal level. You could most likely do this through interstate commerce. Now I’m a libertarian so that usually isn’t a very good idea to me but in this instance the feds could certainly ban drugs nationally as a starting point. So what do people think?

Tax reform for horseplayers is obviously an issue being tackled here in DC to some extent. Should the horseplayers try to push industry reforms or should we leave it to the industry players? What specific reforms would you propose?

john r

Posted by: john r on May 08, 2008 at 01:14 PM

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svhill - I have moved on but I was speaking only of euthanasia on the track and whether the connections HAD to be informed prior to putting down the horse. That's it.

You certainly noted various other laws which actually do not differ from my position. I noted the vet board and professional societies and how they relate as well in my previous post.

In terms of public policy we are talking about the same thing and different at the same time. I am not talking about public policy in a legal philosophical sense.

Let’s get away from legalisms and think about how public policy can improve the game. I’d like your thoughts.

Let’s not all hold our breath about this:

From DRF “The Jockey Club has formed a seven-member committee that will issue recommendations on how "to improve the health and safety of Thoroughbreds," the organization announced on Thursday.”

In terms of the Preakness….RCTG or SR??? I doubt it but I will be open to playing against BB once we see who will actually show up. I hope there is a strong undercard.

Riley or Justin – how many will you have entered Preakness Day?

John r

Posted by: john r on May 08, 2008 at 02:08 PM

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FormBloggers,

The Thoroughbred Jockey Club is going to examine the issue of horse safety:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/45103.htm

Posted by: Calvin Carter on May 08, 2008 at 02:48 PM

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Hey all,
Love reading the blog so I figured to hop on board. About the peter pan this weekend at Belmont; Is it just me or is this one of the most regally bred fields we've seen in a long time. I mean cosmic,casino drive and spark candle have pedigrees to die for. Siblings to champions out of champions, I can't wait for this renewal. There's going to be alot of talent and a lot of nice prices to go with them. The horse to come out of this race the winner will be a serious force in the three year old division, and would think he can give big brown a real run for his money at belmont. Can't wait for saturdays card!!!Also i think it'd be great to see harlem rocker skip the preakness and canadian triple crown prep and show up to the MET MILE!!!Throw him to those older wolves and i think he'll prove tough to beat. I'm a bustin stones fanatic since he broke his maiden and am pulling for him all the way in that one but wow if HR can show up that would be one solid field of milers. Enjoyed my first post and look forward to chatting it up with you guys regularly.
- Evan

Posted by: Evan N. on May 08, 2008 at 03:04 PM

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RE: Larry Jones & Steroids

I have a couple of comments/observations:

1) Larry Jones has been one of the trainers (of many) that is recognized by insiders as a heavy user of Steroids (note that I'm not suggesting that he's doing anything illegal).

2) Knowing #1 and then thinking about Eight Belles and my understanding of a Steroids ban at Delaware Park, with a little Google work, I discovered that there is a period of leniency (due to outraged horsemen) until Sept. 30. Interestingly enough, in an article published on 5/4 at http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080504/SPORTS09/805040382 , owner Rick Porter is quoted as saying "The steroid ban has been a huge mistake". Indeed, makes you go "hmmmm", huh???? Eight Belles was a physically big, well muscled filly with a lot of muscled mass weight bearing down on her musculoskeletal structure with every intense stride in the KY Derby over a surface that was a compressed hard packed highway.... THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!!

Posted by: Blue Horseshoe on May 08, 2008 at 03:33 PM

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I think it's appropriate that NYRA will discuss the feasiblity of synthetics at New York tracks, but I hope they come to the conclusion that tradition will rightly be served if Saratoga and Belmont retain their current surfaces. Aqeduct, on the other hand, could convert to synthetic on their main track and convert their inner track to turf. This would help their winter racing and save wear and tear on their current turf surface. In any case, I hope they go slow on this.

Posted by: Leo on May 08, 2008 at 03:55 PM

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Lenny,
As a follow-up to your earlier question, I just copied my Excel spreadsheet to Google to show you how I look at BEL KTBs for this meeting (added the color to mimic how it actually looks on my spreadsheet - didn't yet include today's races):
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p0punDkqmTL4NWuvjqnp-bg
BEL is essentially only 1-turn dirt but I subdivide, then also total, the inner and outer turf tracks. The KTB formula for B=1stplace, C=2ndplace, D=other 1st-halfers, E=2nd-halfers, F("total")=B+C+D+E for row7 would be: KTB=200*(B7/F7)+100*(C7/F7)+100*(B7+C7+D7)/F7

Posted by: Alan on May 08, 2008 at 04:08 PM

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Good grief do we ever need a story from Uncle Steve. Some of the recent rants on here would make a trip to the local proctologist (Dr. Edward Scissorshands) a pleasant way to spend the day. Alan, thanks for tossing in a couple of your selections. Enough with the game of tag from our legal friends.

Posted by: Ray Manley on May 08, 2008 at 04:14 PM

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Dan,

Any suggestions about whether "fan" letters to the newly formed "committee to improve health and safety" would do any good? If you think it would, where could we send them?

It looks like a very narrowly constructed committee. I guess I have a "pie in the sky" vision of the committee being flooded by letters from the likes of Steve T., Alan, other Formbloggers, and other concerned horseplayers and it actually having an impact on them.

Ed

Posted by: Ed on May 08, 2008 at 04:17 PM

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Fellow blue bloggers,
Another issue as a resident of MD is the abundance of tracks in the Mid-Atlantic area. Pimlico, Delaware, the opening of Monmouth tomorrow, Philly Park, Charlestown... There is an oversaturation of racing and embarrassing field sizes. Why can't these tracks cooperate somehow. Oh well, just add this to the list of taxation, witholding, drugs, synthetic vs. dirt, HRTV vs. TVG, internet wagering disputes... Good grief the Preakness couldn't happen soon enough.

Posted by: billg on May 08, 2008 at 04:54 PM

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SVHILL,

There is an opening for chief judge of the Louisiana Supreme Court this fall. Care to change your state citizenship and run. Consider me your campaign strategist.

Bravo for your above posted thoughts.

BEBC

Posted by: BigEasyBigChok on May 08, 2008 at 06:22 PM

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Blue Horseshoe -

Good point about the newer stallions being penalized for their unraced juveniles of 2008 (and it's probably not fair to list sires with three crops or less). The top veterans on the list would also be penalized somewhat by this year's unraced crop of babies. Taking away the juveniles of 2008, Dynaformer, Gulch, and Salt Lake would boast an over 80% starter/foal rate while the rest of the top seven would stay between 75-80%.

Posted by: Dan Illman on May 08, 2008 at 06:52 PM

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JohnnyZ and Svhill,
Your welcome re:the post.

JohnnyZ,

I'm with you on CJ and Tiznow.
If you looked at the pics in the bloodhorse from start to finish. He got squeezed totally on both sides. More like a mugging. He did finish well. There will be another day and another race for him.

Hollywood Card Frid.
6th race two key horses horizontal are the 3 and 4.
Vertically alos use the 7 and 8 and 12.
Marty Jones is always a good play at Hllywd, he generally puts over a couple LS early

Posted by: larryk on May 09, 2008 at 07:19 AM

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What a great site. First visit here and the info & replying posts are excellent and really enjoyable. In Australia we have only recently started to get an exposure to American racing. So I am sure this site is going to start getting a real influx of Australian visitors very shortly. Best Regards, Mike Keenan.

Posted by: Michael Keenan on May 09, 2008 at 08:54 AM

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